How EPCIS is Revolutionizing Supply Chains with Matt Andrews

[00:00:00] It really kind of starts with that sort of vision is like, you know, what are we needing this extra visibility for that an EPCIS space system could provide? And then it's kind of going step by step in terms of what processes then are we looking to capture? You know, are we looking to capture the whole supply chain? Or is it just a few things? Are we looking to just get more granular data for shipping and receiving?

[00:00:20] Hello and welcome to the Next Level Supply Chain with GS1 US, a podcast in which we explore the mind bending world of global supply chains, covering topics such as automation, innovation, unique identity, and more. I'm your co host Reed. And I'm Liz. And welcome to the show.

[00:00:38] Hello, and thanks for joining us. I hope that you're having a great day. Today, we're going to be talking with Matt Andrews. Matt is a global standards director here at GS1 US. And he's going to be talking about everything EPCIS. So if you're looking at anything within your supply chains, if you're working with DSCSA or FSMA, right, so you have food safety modernization

[00:01:07] or your drug supply chain, or your drug supply chain, or your drug supply chain security act, if you're dealing with any of those, you should listen in. If you're just looking for best practices, and looking at visibility event data, or how can I model data and look at my inputs and outputs, getting physical processes, constructing palettes, deconstructing palettes, he's going to cover all of that in this EPCIS conversation.

[00:01:36] And what does EPCIS stand for? Electronic Product Code Information Services. Let's jump right into the conversation. Hey, Matt, welcome to the show.

[00:01:47] Hi, Reed. Hi, Liz. Thanks for having me today. Pleasure to be here.

[00:01:50] Yeah, we're glad you can attend. Before we jump into it, this is a quick episode that we're putting together here. But just tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do at GS1 US.

[00:02:02] Sure, happy to. So yep, Matt Andrews, as already said, I work as one of the global standards directors here at GS1 US. And on the standards team here, my specific focus is on providing technical knowledge for cross industry applications of the EPCIS standard, which is one of the flagship core standards for the share pillar of the GS1 architecture.

[00:02:24] So we'll get into it a little bit, but it's basically a standard that's used to model what happens in the physical supply chain. And that can be used for quite a variety of use cases for really industries, industries and companies of any size.

[00:02:36] So I have a cheat sheet, Electronic Product Code Information Services. Yes?

[00:02:43] EPCIS.

[00:02:44] There you go.

[00:02:44] You got it.

[00:02:45] Great. So.

[00:02:46] APSIS.

[00:02:47] Or EPCIS.

[00:02:48] EPCIS.

[00:02:49] EPCIS wins every time.

[00:02:50] There it is. Yeah.

[00:02:52] Anyway, when I first came into the organization many years ago, I heard about EPCIS and I could not put my finger exactly on what it was.

[00:03:01] I knew it was important. I knew that it could be a launching board for a lot of different use cases. Tell us a little bit about that and how it works.

[00:03:10] Sure, sure. So, you know, as we already stated, EPCIS stands for Electronic Product Code Information Services.

[00:03:16] And really, when I talk about the standard kind of in the general introductory sense, I like to start with a baseline of what type of data the standard is envisioned to handle and what type of data the systems that use the standard are envisioned to manage and generate and share amongst trading partners in the supply chain.

[00:03:32] So, at GS1, in the share standards part of the general architecture of the GS1 system, you have basically three different buckets of data that we're kind of talking about.

[00:03:42] We have master data, transaction data, and a newer form of data, which people might not be quite familiar with yet because, again, in the grand scheme, it is fairly new, especially when you compare it to the others.

[00:03:52] It's what's called visibility event data.

[00:03:54] So, with master data, what you have is basically descriptive information or attributes about products or locations, and that's handled in the GS1 architecture by the GDSN standard.

[00:04:05] You then have what's called transaction data, which is basically automated and structured notification data that is sent between trade partners that basically describe what they intend to do between each other in relation to the flow of goods.

[00:04:18] So, if you think of a downstream partner generating transaction data, that might be in the form of a purchase order for a certain number of goods.

[00:04:24] The upstream partner then sends an invoice based on a transaction set standard, and then when those goods ship, probably everybody that's listening might be familiar with the ASN or the advanced shipment notice.

[00:04:34] That's a very popular transaction set that EDI works with.

[00:04:38] And then that third set of data that we described, visibility event data, which is this newer form of information in the supply chain.

[00:04:44] Basically, what visibility event data does is it seeks to model the actual processes that are physically carried out in the supply chain from location to location.

[00:04:53] So, think about the processes that are perhaps in reaction to a transaction message sent.

[00:04:59] So, for example, purchase order is sent.

[00:05:01] You then start generating the construction of a pallet, which then has a certain number of cases and perhaps those cases of the products that are ordered based on the purchase order that's submitted.

[00:05:10] So, what this visibility event data does is it basically gives us information about what the objects that are involved in these processes are going through at any given point in time.

[00:05:20] So, picture a certain number of cases that are being packed onto a pallet.

[00:05:23] The visibility event data for the pallet can detail things like how many cases are on that pallet and what the identifiers of those cases are.

[00:05:31] And then it can further model the physical steps that that pallet then goes through in the transfer from the upstream partner to the downstream partner.

[00:05:37] So, with visibility event data, what you're getting is basically a model of what's physically occurring in the supply chain.

[00:05:44] And what the EPCIS or Electronic Product Code Information Services Standard does is it seeks to provide that structured way of actually modeling that data.

[00:05:52] The standard actually defines the different data elements that you can use to model basically any instance of any process that physically happens in the supply chain.

[00:05:59] And then it also defines the additional interfaces as well that it can be used to then send that data across the total supply chain for anybody that needs information about products that might be coming their way.

[00:06:12] So, again, kind of to summarize what the standard does is it seeks to model what actually physically occurs in the supply chain and in such a way that is a way that can be digested and shared between really any trading partner.

[00:06:23] Sounds powerful.

[00:06:24] What are some of the benefits that organizations are seeing by leveraging EPCIS?

[00:06:33] And kind of a second to that, and maybe it's just part of the answer, but are there industries that use it more or less?

[00:06:39] Or do all industries use it?

[00:06:41] I'm thinking like retail, grocery, food service, healthcare, pharmaceuticals, e-commerce, distribution, logistics.

[00:06:49] Yeah, right.

[00:06:50] And luckily, I do have the answer for you, though.

[00:06:52] So, yeah, I would say, you know, the standard is very well applied really in any industry that GS1 and GS1 U.S. supports.

[00:06:59] So, apparel and general merchandise, the healthcare space, certainly the food space as well.

[00:07:04] And a lot of the explorations of the standard currently in some of these spaces, like, for example, in healthcare and in the food space, is in reaction to certain regulations,

[00:07:14] like, say, the DSCSA on the healthcare side or FSMA tool for in the food service and retail grocery side.

[00:07:21] So, what these laws and regulations are essentially telling you to do if you work with products that are under those particular jurisdictions is that you have to do things like, for example,

[00:07:32] document the transfer of ownership of certain pharmaceutical products if you're under the DSCSA,

[00:07:37] or if you handle certain foods that are on the food traceability list that the FDA has curated.

[00:07:42] You have to capture very specific traceability elements for those lot codes that you're producing.

[00:07:48] So, when you create them, when you ship them, when you receive them, and when you use them to create other products,

[00:07:54] and then detailing how much of that product that you create from that transaction step, or sorry, transformation step.

[00:07:59] So, where EPCIS can lend itself very well to these applications is because it's modeling the actual supply chain processes that are involved with the handling of these goods in those, say, shipping, receiving processes,

[00:08:11] or the consumption of certain inputs to create certain outputs.

[00:08:15] Really, that's what transformation is.

[00:08:16] The standard can actually provide a full granular visibility of those steps in the supply chain down to the unique item level.

[00:08:23] So, for example, in the DSCSA world, you actually have to say which specific instances of products you're handling.

[00:08:30] So, that's down to that serial unit level.

[00:08:33] Whereas in FISMA 204, it's more at the lot and quantity level.

[00:08:37] So, the standard is geared to basically provide histories and records of what not only groupings of products go through,

[00:08:43] but also individual products, instances of products can go through.

[00:08:46] And that's also, this type of data also lends itself very well to cases of inventory management as well.

[00:08:52] Inventory management, I think, is a really big one for EPCIS.

[00:08:55] So, it's not only, for example, the shipping and the receiving processes and the product creation processes that the standard can effectively model.

[00:09:02] It's also the management of inventory at a particular site.

[00:09:06] So, this not only includes, again, that inbound, outbound, granular data capture,

[00:09:10] but we're also talking about things like logging how much of what particular products are currently at a location through logging cycle count events.

[00:09:17] And also, the movement of products internally, such as moving products from, say, the back of house in a retail location out to the front of house.

[00:09:25] And anytime that a product is sold, an EPCIS event could also be logged to tell you when something is sold.

[00:09:31] So, that can be really a great application in the retail environment.

[00:09:34] Because if you know through an EPCIS event that gets logged that you've sold your last one on the sales floor,

[00:09:40] but the EPCIS event data also reflects that you have more to move out from the back to the front,

[00:09:45] those events can be generated in real time to give you some insights as to what you need to do to manage your stock internally at a location.

[00:09:53] And that sale data could also be perhaps turned to e-com to update perhaps an on-hand quantity at a website.

[00:09:59] Like, there's, you can see, like, you know, I didn't, I had plenty of ammo for you on that question.

[00:10:04] There's just endless applications of visibility.

[00:10:06] I loved your example of all of it and healthcare versus food, the inventory management, the cycle counts,

[00:10:15] the back of house to the front of house was a great visual for me.

[00:10:19] Before you even got to that, I was thinking in my head, like,

[00:10:22] can it work with food for, like, damage, spoilage, right?

[00:10:28] So I'm delivering a case of watermelons and five of them broke and I have to throw them out, but I have the rest.

[00:10:34] So I'm updating my inventory.

[00:10:36] I still have this case, but I don't have the same quantity because of damage or spoilage.

[00:10:42] Yep. Yep, exactly.

[00:10:43] And I think what we'll probably get into next is sort of the different dimensions of an EPCIS event,

[00:10:49] because really it's those dimensions that sort of differentiate one individual event that you log in the supply chain from another.

[00:10:56] And ultimately it's those dimension values that make any EPCIS event unique from another.

[00:11:01] So I think that's actually a perfect segue to kind of get into that,

[00:11:04] because there is this way you're kind of getting at is there is this status element to an EPCIS event.

[00:11:08] It's called a disposition that is part of the one of the dimensions.

[00:11:11] But, you know, kind of starting off with sort of that general description of what the dimensions are.

[00:11:16] And again, the dimensions are what essentially make one event completely unique from another.

[00:11:20] You have dimensions called the what, where, the when, and the why.

[00:11:24] And then there's this fifth element dimension that you can also have called the how,

[00:11:28] which we'll get into a little bit.

[00:11:30] That's unique to certain applications, I would say.

[00:11:32] So starting off with perhaps the what dimension,

[00:11:35] the what dimension is essentially telling us for any EPCIS event that we're creating,

[00:11:39] what are we actually handling in the event physically?

[00:11:41] And what objects are physically going through this instance of this process that we're capturing,

[00:11:45] whether that's receiving, shipping, manufacturing, stocking, selling, what have you.

[00:11:50] So the what fields basically house the identifiers for kind of what we already mentioned,

[00:11:55] either serialized objects or unique objects,

[00:11:58] such as perhaps maybe we're identifying a palette with an SSCC and providing its identifier

[00:12:02] in the what dimension field for the palette.

[00:12:05] Or it could be perhaps lot level identified items,

[00:12:09] and we're providing a quantity element in response to that.

[00:12:11] So think about, say, like 50 cases of apples,

[00:12:15] and those cases are each identified by a GTIN plus a batch lot number.

[00:12:19] And then we're denoting how many cases of those were handled.

[00:12:22] Those are basically the subjects in the event.

[00:12:25] Then what we have is the when dimension, which is probably the most simplistic, really.

[00:12:29] It's just simply saying, when did this event take place?

[00:12:31] Really nothing more, nothing less.

[00:12:33] And then we have this notion of the where dimension as well,

[00:12:36] which there's two pieces to that.

[00:12:37] It basically tells us, you know, when exactly did this event occur in the supply chain or in this facility?

[00:12:43] And then we also have this notion of the business location of the objects that are the subjects of the event.

[00:12:49] And basically what that tells us is once this event has been carried out and completed,

[00:12:54] where can we expect to now find that palette or those cases once this event has run its course?

[00:13:00] And then finally, for the mandatory dimensions, we have the final one,

[00:13:03] which is the Y dimension, which tells us the full business context as to why this event is even taking place in the first place.

[00:13:10] So there's a couple of different labels there.

[00:13:12] You have the business step, which is the business process label.

[00:13:15] So think of shipping, receiving, cycle counting, some of the ones we've already mentioned.

[00:13:19] It essentially just tells us what process are we capturing here with this event.

[00:13:23] Then you have what you're alluding to read, that notion of status of the objects,

[00:13:27] which is what we call disposition in EPCIS speak.

[00:13:30] And these could be things like sellable, accessible, damaged is another one that's part of the standard.

[00:13:35] You also have things like active.

[00:13:37] So as soon as things are manufactured, they're now considered to be active objects and awaiting their next process.

[00:13:43] And then you can have status all the way up to, say, retail sold, which we kind of alluded to.

[00:13:47] You can basically log any event from manufacturing all the way to the point of sale with EPCIS.

[00:13:53] And then one of the more important things that you can also kind of use to complete the circle in EPCIS,

[00:13:58] if you will, with the physical to the transaction is you can include references to any EDI documents

[00:14:04] that the physical event data that you're producing might be linked to.

[00:14:07] So, again, think about kind of what we talked about before.

[00:14:10] If you're building a pallet in response to a purchase order in the event data that kind of models the physical construction of the pallet,

[00:14:16] you can also include in the standard event data a link to that ASN and provide, say, the document number there.

[00:14:22] And then finally, there's this optional element that's fairly new to the standard in the grand scheme that's called the how dimension.

[00:14:28] And that how dimension allows you to include sensor-based information that can be used for a lot of different use cases.

[00:14:34] But the one we probably talked the most commonly about today is perhaps if you're storing something in an area that's designated for cold storage,

[00:14:41] if you need to perhaps denote what temperature the room is during that storage event.

[00:14:46] You can log what temperature that is, and if perhaps the temperature is too high,

[00:14:50] you can perhaps even flag an alert based on the sensor data that you capture in that event saying,

[00:14:55] hey, we need to address this room.

[00:14:56] It's not cold enough to store these objects at this time.

[00:14:59] Wow. A lot in there.

[00:15:01] When you said the how, the first thing that came to mind for me was it was manually done.

[00:15:07] It was done by a forklift, a truck, a robotic arm, a picker, a robot.

[00:15:11] Is that also an option to take in in the how step or not now?

[00:15:17] Yeah, that's an interesting question, Reid.

[00:15:19] Yeah.

[00:15:19] So really what the how dimension is designed for is to, again, as we kind of said,

[00:15:25] provide that sensor based information about either the objects themselves,

[00:15:29] which could be perhaps the weight of the object or maybe some dimensional information about the objects that are in the what dimension

[00:15:35] or information about their surroundings like temperature, let's say.

[00:15:38] But what you could do, say, with the mechanism that you're handling the objects with,

[00:15:44] whether that's a forklift or something that you're scanning with, perhaps a barcode scanner or an RFID tag scanner,

[00:15:50] you could use that information to kind of denote where that object is being handled and provide that information for, say, the where dimension.

[00:15:57] So if that scanner in your system is perhaps designated to a certain facility,

[00:16:02] the way that you could configure your system, that scanner, anytime you scan a product with it,

[00:16:06] let's say, for whatever process it is, that can assist you in actually defining the where dimension for the event that you're generating.

[00:16:12] And I have a quick question before I get to my next real question.

[00:16:15] You mentioned transformation and inputs and outputs.

[00:16:19] Is that a business step?

[00:16:20] So transformation is actually, in EPCIS speak, what we would call an event type.

[00:16:25] So basically the event type transformation is consumption of any inputs irreversibly to create outputs.

[00:16:31] And so that could be really any number of things.

[00:16:34] It could be ingredients to create, say, a new food product,

[00:16:37] but it's always something that's an irreversible consumption of outputs to create, or sorry, inputs to create outputs.

[00:16:44] And that's where it can lend itself very well to modeling, say, like a transformation CTE for FISMA purposes.

[00:16:50] I was putting that together with FISMA, and there's been a lot of talk around transformation.

[00:16:54] I was trying to make my vocabulary match, which I didn't do very well.

[00:16:58] But thank you for clarifying that.

[00:17:00] So obviously there's a lot of benefits.

[00:17:03] For me, who's not technical, pretty technical.

[00:17:06] How does one get started and get more information with EPCIS?

[00:17:09] Yeah, no, definitely.

[00:17:10] It's a good question.

[00:17:11] And kind of as you said, being able to have this type of visibility can certainly be a daunting task,

[00:17:17] if that is the ultimate goal, is wanting more real granular visibility into the supply chain and more real-time data.

[00:17:24] Because again, with an EPCIS-based system, really kind of what we're envisioning is generating this event data

[00:17:30] as the objects are actually being handled.

[00:17:32] So these systems that would use the standard are really kind of designed to be right on top of the objects

[00:17:36] as they're handled in whatever facility the events are being generated in,

[00:17:41] whether that's manufacturing, distribution center, or retail location.

[00:17:45] But really it kind of starts, I think, with some kind of problem that might require additional visibility.

[00:17:50] And that could be, again, either meeting a regulation such as DSCSA or FISMA 204,

[00:17:56] or it could be just you're looking to become more competitive,

[00:17:59] and you're looking to see if real-time supply chain data is something that could kind of put you over the edge

[00:18:04] from a competitor's standpoint.

[00:18:06] It really kind of starts with that sort of vision is like, you know,

[00:18:09] what are we needing this extra visibility for that an EPCIS-based system could provide?

[00:18:14] And then it's kind of going step by step in terms of what processes then are we looking to capture?

[00:18:20] You know, are we looking to capture the whole supply chain or is it just a few things?

[00:18:23] Are we looking to just get more granular data for shipping and receiving?

[00:18:26] Because we're trying to, again, another application that you can use that visibility for is claims compliance.

[00:18:32] So being able to capture more effectively what you have on the outbound,

[00:18:35] and then your retail partner perhaps doing so on the inbound.

[00:18:38] So what processes are you then looking to get that, you know, more granular data for?

[00:18:42] That's maybe the next step.

[00:18:43] And then from there, you go through perhaps exercises of, you know,

[00:18:48] figuring out what you have for the data points to generate that data with.

[00:18:52] So how do we identify products?

[00:18:54] Is it with just G10?

[00:18:55] Is it with G10 plus serial number?

[00:18:57] And that kind of dictates how you would effectively build the event data itself.

[00:19:02] And then by following the standard that you can then move to the real technical implementation,

[00:19:06] which is, you know, once you decide how you're going to get those identifiers through, say, barcode scans or other means,

[00:19:12] it's then kind of packaging up into the structured format that the standard prescribes,

[00:19:17] and then kind of storing it into a data storage element like a database or what we would call an EPCI-Synet repository.

[00:19:24] And that's where you maybe get your IT folks involved to kind of understand, you know, how that data flow all works.

[00:19:29] But yeah, it really kind of starts with, you know, your problem statement.

[00:19:32] What are we needing in terms of extra visibility and what processes that we need it for?

[00:19:36] And then kind of following the standard to build the data.

[00:19:39] And then the resources that we have available on the global website are things like the EPCI-Synet and CBB,

[00:19:45] which is the core business vocabulary.

[00:19:47] And that kind of talks about how you actually format the values that you put in the fields.

[00:19:51] It's kind of referencing, you know, the EPCI-Synet and CBB implementation guideline,

[00:19:56] which kind of describes that flow that I mentioned in full.

[00:19:59] And then another key thing to consider that you can get out of that guideline is

[00:20:02] if we're going to share this data with trading partners because of a regulation or because of an agreed amount of visibility that we're going to give each other,

[00:20:10] how do we do it?

[00:20:11] Do we just simply send the data upstream to downstream or are the downstream partners going to request it upstream?

[00:20:17] So the standard supports both of those types of choreographies.

[00:20:20] And then, of course, there's the standard documents themselves.

[00:20:22] And you have the folks here at GS1 US also to help you out in this implementation as well.

[00:20:27] I think that's actually an excellent call out.

[00:20:30] I mean, we have a lot of resources on our website, but we also have, you know, support phone number.

[00:20:36] You can call in and actually speak to somebody and then get meetings scheduled with expertise.

[00:20:40] And even advisory services and also our solution partner program where we have, you know,

[00:20:46] validated, qualified, and tested and educated and trained partners that work in this as well.

[00:20:52] So there's a lot of different aspects to go on that.

[00:20:55] Matt, this has been fantastic.

[00:20:56] And I said in the very beginning, this is a quick episode.

[00:20:59] So we wanted to get you in and because this is really important information.

[00:21:02] And it's, as you can tell, there's a lot to it from, you know, what we discussed here.

[00:21:07] And we may have more questions.

[00:21:09] And so we may have to bring you back on.

[00:21:12] But I do have one final question.

[00:21:14] We always ask everyone this and we find it fun and enlightening.

[00:21:18] And it's just a good way to kind of just share opinions.

[00:21:21] But either in your personal life or your professional life, you're free to choose.

[00:21:26] What's your favorite technology that you're using today?

[00:21:29] Sure.

[00:21:30] Yeah.

[00:21:30] I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm using it directly necessarily.

[00:21:33] But, I mean, anybody that knows me well enough knows that I'm a huge, huge golf nut.

[00:21:38] I love playing it.

[00:21:39] I love watching it.

[00:21:40] I love going to professional tournaments.

[00:21:42] And I'm always stunned at the amount of data that they're giving you in terms of how the golfers are performing.

[00:21:48] Like whenever they hit a shot, they tell you exactly how fast.

[00:21:51] The speed of the ball.

[00:21:51] The speed of the stroke.

[00:21:52] Exactly.

[00:21:53] Exactly.

[00:21:53] The arc.

[00:21:54] It's unbelievable.

[00:21:55] Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:56] How fast the ball went.

[00:21:57] Being able to see like the exact path of the ball, which is especially fun when they shank it because, oh, you can actually see like how far right it went.

[00:22:04] They do that too.

[00:22:05] So it's always comforting to see like, oh, wow, that really was a terrible shot.

[00:22:09] So it kind of lets you know that there's human.

[00:22:12] But I love just being able to see like exactly what the ball is doing on the screen now.

[00:22:18] I mean, it's so cool.

[00:22:19] And I remember, you know, watching say the Masters in the 90s with my dad and just not having really any sense of like what these guys were doing.

[00:22:26] And now that you can see it, it's just it adds such a cool element to the viewing experience.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:31] That is really cool.

[00:22:32] I know that you do that with football, both American football and European football, which we call soccer here in the U.S.

[00:22:38] They do a lot of different things.

[00:22:39] How many miles are they running in an average game?

[00:22:42] And, you know, heart rates and cycling and all this stuff.

[00:22:45] But you brought up it gives a different perspective because we were watching the Olympics this year.

[00:22:49] My son and I were flipping through.

[00:22:51] We were watching every day, different things and stuff you don't see all the time.

[00:22:54] Right.

[00:22:55] And so archery was on.

[00:22:56] And my son was like, Dad, even I could hit the bullseye with that.

[00:23:00] And I turned to him and I'm like, you don't see how far this is.

[00:23:04] That's 70 yards.

[00:23:05] It's hard to even see the target.

[00:23:07] It's so far away.

[00:23:09] And then they showed it panned backwards.

[00:23:11] They showed the arc.

[00:23:13] And these folks were hitting bullseyes.

[00:23:15] And it gave a different perspective to him right away that he didn't see before.

[00:23:19] So it kind of reminded you with your dad back in the 90s when he didn't have that.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:25] It's remarkable what you can see on the screen now.

[00:23:27] It really is.

[00:23:28] Super cool.

[00:23:29] Super cool.

[00:23:29] Well, listen, thank you again.

[00:23:31] And we look forward to talking to you again soon.

[00:23:34] Very much.

[00:23:34] Very much looking forward to it, Reid.

[00:23:36] Thank you.

[00:23:36] And thank you, Liz, too.

[00:23:38] Thank you for joining the Next Level Supply Chain with GS1US.

[00:23:41] If you enjoyed today's show, you can subscribe to our feed or explore more great episodes wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:23:48] Don't forget to share and follow us on social media.

[00:23:51] Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.